Update: GE’s Megan Robison has responded with the statement “The foam is no more a risk to consumers in their homes than 134a” so we presume GE must have European statistics on fire incidence, mortality and injury separated by white goods foam type and blowing agent. Otherwise how could they make such a statement?
In fairness I’ve pinned this post to the front page so everyone will immediately see when GE proves me wrong – or if they do. Since this data must already be in hand it’s reasonable leaving this post pinned until what, first posting Monday, May 9? It only took a day for Megan to respond the first time so the working week should be plenty of time, surely.
Alright GE, as Wilbur allegedly said to his brother on that fateful day at Kitty Hawk on December 17, 1903: “Let ‘er rip, Orville!” – you show us how appliances containing a foam of flammable/explosive cyclopentane offers a zero risk-increment over those filled with non-flammable, non-toxic gases.
Given GE’s absurd scaremongering over matters environmental, particularly gorebull warbling – and their highly magnified risk sensitivity – I can’t wait to see how they go about demonstrating the safety of placing highly flammable and explosive gas-filled appliance cabinets in people’s homes. :End update
Text as first posted: So, to avoid a problem that doesn’t really exist in the wild, we banned non-flammable, non-explosive and really useful CFCs. Now, to avoid contributing to another problem which exists only in PlayStation® climatology and fevered imaginations we are to replace the replacement gases – with something flammable and explosive!
I’m sure firefighters will be thrilled with the changeover from fire-suppressing CFCs through fire-retarding HFCs to downright explosive cyclopentane, turning people’s white goods into domestic incendiaries and explosives.
I guess all it takes is “ecomagination”, eh?
When Refrigerators Warm the Planet
By MATTHEW L. WALD
The kitchen refrigerator is an obvious contributor to global warming because it usually sucks in electricity that was made by burning fossil fuels. But it turns out that the refrigerator does harm to the environment before it is even plugged in because the insulating foam in its innards is made with a gas that is more than 1,000 times worse, molecule for molecule, than carbon dioxide.
Now, however, manufacturers are seizing on a single change can reduce both warming mechanisms at once. General Electric said Tuesday that it had become the first American manufacturer of a full line of refrigerators to take that step, which is to eliminate a gas called HFC 134a, a so-called blowing agent.
The blowing agent is used to whip the foam into a frothy milkshake-like mix and move it into the doors and walls of their machines, where it hardens. Unlike the styrofoam in a disposable coffee cup, the material in appliances is filled with bubbles.
Manufacturers once used chlorofluorocarbons, known as CFCs, for that job. When such gas is used, it flows into the atmosphere, either immediately or years later when the machine is junked and the tiny bubbles escape. But CFCs were banned because they accumulated in the upper atmosphere and the chlorine would break down molecules of ozone, which shield the Earth’s surface from harmful rays of the sun. (Green, NYT)
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Your inaccurate post will needlessly alarm consumers. Cyclopentane is currently used in insulation foam inside the walls of refrigerator doors and cases in Europe and has been used safely for many years. Cyclopentane is also used in a large number of refrigerators that are imported into this country as well. The foam is no more a risk to consumers in their homes than 134a. Everything we do starts with the safety of our customers and our employees in mind. Consumers have absolutely no reason to be concerned about having a refrigerator that uses cyclopentane in the insulation in their homes and cyclopentane has the added benefit of drastically reducing GHG emissions in the manufacturing process. GE is very pleased to be the first full-line manufacturer in the U.S. to use cylcopentane.
Actually Megan of GE Appliances.com, if GE gave a damn about consumers and/or efficiency it would have supported the continued use of CFCs rather than endorsing the absurdity of the “ozone depletion” scare, or should that read “scam”. Not doable for a multinational? Odd, Coke and Pepsi (some of the world’s largest refrigeration appliance owners) still use CFC refrigerants throughout much of the world with the blunt statement they won’t be shifting from them unless a better product becomes available.
Parenthetically, R134a is listed as non-flammable and non-explosive, which cannot be said for cyclopentane, can it? Consequently there is a difference in fire risk and your statement “The foam is no more a risk to consumers in their homes than 134a” is immediately questionable. What statistics do you have on domestic and commercial building fires and casualties to show that there has been no increase in risk in Europe with the changeover to flammable/explosive gases? CFC refrigerant R12, on the other hand, is nontoxic, nonflammable, and non-explosive.
Tell us too about GE’s great concern for consumers and employees with its “ecomagination” drive to needlessly inflate consumer costs and offshore “green” jobs.
I know it’s your job but please try to do better than “the Europeans are stupid so Americans should be too“. Just because the Europeans remain in the foolish fog of Green-Red coalitions bent on destroying industrialized civilization to return to some imagined pastoral utopia does not make their ridiculous chemical hysteria worth emulating.
Finally, fueling enhanced greenhouse hysteria might be a means of farming federal subsidies and colluding in legislation mandating the use of inefficient products might force some market for (Chinese-made?) GE wind generators, for example but it is hardly an example of can-do American productivity. Is it a source of company pride for you? Is there any chance at all that GE might try innovation, productivity and efficiency instead of mandated mediocrity and theft of taxpayer funds through lobbying for subsidies?
Do let us know if GE considers a return to a company of which Americans can be proud.
We look forward to those comparison statistics demonstrating the domestic fire safety of cyclopentane.
Edited to fix mismatched quotes
When R-12 was banned some people wanted to use a mixture of Propane and Butane as a replacment. It works just fine and is fully compatible with the R-12 oil and compressors. Despite this mixture being certified for use as a refrigerant in Europe, the EPA said that it was too dangerous for Americans because of the flamable nature of the gasses. Of course, many women probably have more flamable propellants in their bathroom spray cans than there is in a refrigerator, but that doesn’t seem to concern the EPA. So now the insulation foam will contain a flammable gas? What will they approve next? A return to the toxic refrigerants that were replaced by R-12?
Richmond, Spray cans aren’t kept next to a hot stove that can periodically spout open flames in a nice flambe.
And I refuse to accept statistics, much less hand-wave dismissals of concerns as evidence of safety. Go to the Underwriters Laboratory and demonstrate sufficient fire resistance to earn a seal of approval, and then my concern will be alleviated.
Ben,
You apparently misunderstood my posting. Your comment about spray cans while interesting is a gross generalization; some people do keep flammable items including spray cans next to heat sources such as stoves; hmm … Pam and other spray cooking oils? Apparently you made that comment because you think refrigerators are placed next to stoves? This can happen, but is not a normal kitchen configuration.
You can certainly reject anything you please, but your rejection does not have any impact on reality. While invoking Underwriters Laboratory is a nice appeal to authority, it is not germane to my comments. I can’t determine from your post why you responded the way you did. I’m certain that you understand what you meant to say, but you might want to consider that your meaning did not come through intact. Also consider that I don’t care to engage you in a running discussion. The use of flammable gasses was caused by the ban on CFCs based on a fraud and scam. As noted above, R12 is nontoxic, nonflammable, and non-explosive. We would not be talking about flammable gasses in refrigerators if we still used CFCs!
Richmond, I am not appealing to authority. I am stating that Mr. Milloy’s suggestion that GE produce European statistics is not acceptable evidence. If GE wants to state that their new foam insulation is safe, they need to go to an independent testing agency (out of these, I trust UL above any other) and have it fully tested. (Perhaps I wasn’t clear that I was switching directions in my different paragraphs. The second half of my comment was not directed to you, but to the main article. I apologize if I was unclear). I also apologize for misreading your comment, I thought you were dismissing the concern by stating that spray cans were already flammable.
Finally I know that in a full kitchen, it is unusual to place a refrigerator next to a stove. However, in small kitchens found in tiny apartments, they are. My junior dorm room kitchen had scorch marks on the side of the refrigerator from the previous occupant. Not exactly a comforting thought.
In the end, I agree with your point, CFC propellants are much safer and should not have been banned as they were.